300: The Last Stand of The Spartans (Part 1)

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Elliot:   

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Anthology of Heroes, the podcast sharing stories of Heroic figures who altered the course of history. Anthology of Heroes as part of The Evergreen Podcast network. I'm your host Elliot Gates, and today I'll be collaborating with one of my favourite podcasters, Mark  Pimenta, host of the sensational Warlords of History Podcast. This crossover we did was really a match made in heaven. Mark's show and mine are so similar. I think we've even had some crossover on some of the battles and. Figures we've talked about. My favourite thing about Warlords of History is Mark's in-depth research. I think he's got a 5 parter or something insane on the life of timberlane, the famous Uzbek conqueror. He's also got some great episodes on lesser known figures, Vikings, Roman rebels like this show. There's a bit of everything. But today, we're not here to talk about 14th century conquerors who walked with a limp. Today we're talking about the one and only Leonida. That's right, the spear throwing pit kicking, pun cracking, king of Sparta. I'll be the first to admit it. It's absolutely criminal on both of our parts that shows like ours. With such a banter last stands and heroic figures, we've somehow missed the most famous last stand of all time. The Battle of Thermopylae was fought all the way back in 480 BC. It was a. Battle between a. Few Greek city states, led by King Leonidas of Sparta against the enormous Achaemenid Persian Empire led by the share of Shahs himself. Xerses the first. In a dry, dusty gorge in southern Greece, 300 Spartans and a handful of Greek allies would hold back the tide in the name of freedom. It's probably one of the most well known battles in Western civilization for so many movies, TV shows, songs, and artwork that sometimes it's hard. To separate fact from fiction. So that's what Mark  and I will be trying to do today. Retell the story based on the historical sources that we've dug. In this first episode, we'll follow the Persian menace creeping closer into Greece and see how different city states reacted to Xerses demand for their submission. But we'll also explore some of the fascinating and bizarre aspects of Spartan society. Those 300 men that stood with Leonidas were the best warriors in all of Greece, and they didn't get that good by chance. From infancy, their world was one of pain and survival. Rigorous exercise, excessive punishments, rubbish, food in Spartan society. It was sink or swim. So that's this episode, and in the next one, which will be out in two weeks, we'll talk about the Battle of Thermopylae itself and the legacy it left behind. So let's sharpen the Spears and bring it on. Part one of the story of Leonidas and the Battle of Thermopylae. 

Mark:  

Hey, Elliot, how are you? 

Elliot:   

Hey Mark , doing well, doing well, good to good to collab. 

Mark:  

Excellent. So now I have to say just starting off that ever since we initially talked about joining forces to delve into Leonidas’ lifetime while preparing for our collaboration here, researching and learning about him, Sparta and the Battle of Thermopylae, I've become enthralled with his story. Ohh, I'm extremely excited to be getting into this. With you. But First things first, a very serious question I have to ask you. I need to understand exactly how many times you plan to shout out in a quivering rage. This is Sparta. 

Elliot:   

I've set myself a maximum for two per episodes, but there's no guarantees. To be honest. It's a it's a. Bit too tempting. 

Mark:  

OK, I'll try to keep mine to a minimum as well, so. 

Elliot:   

Yeah, we'll keep ourselves on it. No, and it's it's the same for me. I mean, we've got podcast called Anthology of Heroes and Warlords History and yet none of us have talked about this yet. It seems crazy, right? It's literally tailor made. 

Mark:  

Absolutely couldn't agree more, and the good news is that it looks like we've finally come to our senses here with Leonidas’ story at last. Elliott, perhaps you can lead us in as to when and where it all began. 

Elliot:   

So our story starts today in the year 540 BC. A boy named Leonidas is born into the southern part of Greece in the Peloponnesian Peninsula and society. He grows up in is unique and different not only from the rest of the world, but also from Greece. It's the society known as Sparta or Lacedaeominia as they called it. And there were a people known for their straightforwardness, toughness and brutality. Their short clips speech and more than anything, the way their society. Was geared. It was. It was centred totally around warfare. It wasn't somewhere where the arts were flourishing. The total progression of every single male was to be a great warrior, and so Leonidas would become a key figure in one of history's greatest battles, particularly famous for the last stand at the Thermopylae hot gates, where he would lead 300 Spartans in blocking the advance of the massive Achaemenid Persian Empire. 

Mark:  

Such an incredible last stand, certainly among the most famous in all history, that continues to inspire and astound people to this day, 2500 years later, as does the man who commanded the Greek forces at Thermopylae. Whenever I think about who Leonidas was, the the king of the Spartans. Just his name in Lineage. Those together conjure up for me this incredible image of who this most famous of warriors was. He's a product of the Agiad Royal house, one of the two dynasties that Co ruled over Sparta. And that, according to legend, were descended from Heracles. The greatest of Greek heroes sired by the King of the Greek pantheon, Zeus. Thus we have here Leonidas being a product of the God. And then we have his given name, Leonidas in Greek, meaning the son of a lion, which that alone provides quite the fitting description of what he would have looked like underneath his helmet. A mane of long hair, heavily bearded, ferocious, intimidating and fearsome to behold. Accentuated by this gleaming bronze armour that he wore, and this blood red cloak on his. Now, underneath all of that would have been this well muscled, robust frame, painstakingly cultivated from essentially birth, every single day. Since then, training for war. Granted, this being a description that would have also been fitting for each and everyone of the 300 Spartan warriors that he led into the narrow pass of Thermopylae in August 480 BC, thermopile, as you mentioned, Eliot, meaning the hot gates named for the thermal heated Sulphur Springs. Located nearby. But also acting as the main gateway between northern and central Greece, with Mount Calibre Umo guarding their left flank and the sea protecting their right. So this brings us to this vision of these few brave men in the prime of their lives. Being all that stood in the way. Of that Persian invasion of Greece, led by the King of Kings Xerxes the 1st. But so much. Of this is influenced by legend and the more romanticised or fantastical accounts of this encounter, like those offered by Hollywood. I'm curious to get your thoughts on this Eliot, because while these accounts aren't completely off the Mark: , they certainly don't give us the full picture of what was going on here, nor who Leonidas was. 

Elliot:   

No, I I completely agree. And I mean sure, we'll touch on the sources later, but the main one is Herodotus, right? Right. And he's great because, you know, as people, as historians say, there was no Herodotus before Herodotus. He brings so much colour and life, he really puts flesh on the bones of these characters. But we don't have too much to compare it to. So we don't really know. You know the the INS and outs of this man, particularly Leonidas. He's a bit of a mystery even even among. 

Mark:  

Exactly because when the battle of Thermopylae was fought, surprisingly, Leonidas wasn't in the prime of his life. He was much more advanced in his age than I initially understood. He was around 60 years old and and he had only reigned in Sparta as a king for about 10 years. And you've already touched upon this? Very little documented of his life prior to assuming the Agia crown in 490 so. The Battle of Thermopylae has so many adjoining pieces, because in addition to this. Aside from what was happening on land, there was also another battle that was occurring approximately 50 kilometres away at the same time off the coast to the east of Thermopylae, at a place called Artemisium, wherein an Athenian led naval force, also heavily outnumbered. Was facing off against the incoming Persian fleet. And beyond this, going back to the land battle that was happening at Thermopylae. It wasn't just 300 Spartans that Leonidas led there. He also had, under his command, another roughly 6700 soldiers from Southern and Central Greece. 

Elliot:   

People forget about that. 

Mark:  

Absolutely. And really, it's quite the travesty that they are often forgotten because they were critical to the success of the Greek defence that their. Happily, and without them, I very much doubt that Leonidas and his 300 would have performed as well as they did, much less the battle lasting 3 days. And I think a lot of this. It really relates to what you and I initially discussed us trying to do here, which is do our best to separate fact from fiction and using what we can more reliably lean upon to start piercing together is lifetime. This is probably something that we would both strongly agree that far from deflating the inspiration. All his accomplishments in the story only adds to its distinction. 

Mark: 

Hmm hmm. 

Elliot:   

It is an interesting idea that could any of these men have done exactly what he did right? The society was so geared around him was it was he an essential cog? If they raised up one of those 300 Spartans to lead the army, where they've got the same results, it's a you. Know they're a product of their environment. 

Mark:  

When you look at the whole sequence of events and this will really come to light probably in the second part, when we look at what happened after thermopolia, especially amongst the 300 understanding that we're actually 2 survivors and for for reasons that were perhaps beyond their control. Their legacy is completely different from Leonidas’, right? Just separated by small degrees as far as what occurred to them. We'll get back to that. I guess a little later. So one of the things that I think we both came across as we were doing our research is just understanding how many limitations there. Are in terms of the relevant documentation of Leonidas’ early lifetime. But I think a lot of his story, a lot of his early years can be gleaned from understanding Sparta itself, its history. Yeah, culture and societal norms, how it evolved into this exceedingly severe militaristic state. And it was truly designed to mould the perfect warriors ready, if not willing to sacrifice themselves for their state. And so as we want to try to better understand who Leonidas was and how all of his story came to fruition, I think a good starting point is to kick things off at the very beginning. Spartas founding and evolution. 

Elliot:   

Yeah. Look, I think that's probably before we can kind of get into the last stand. We need to set the scene a bit down. So by the time Leonidas was born, we said 540 before Sparta. Would you say it was the dominant power if? Not it was climbing to the top of the kind of Greek city states in terms of land power, right? 

Mark:  

Absolutely. They were definitely nearing the apex of their power. Their hegemony over Greece, but. Still, a few steps removed from that point. They were certainly the dominant power in the southern Peloponnese. 

Elliot:   

Yeah. Yeah. So it was very much Spartan as the land power. And then you've got the emerging state of Athens as the sea power. And what was quite unusual about Athens at that point is democracy. As in, you know, the basis of what most of our societies are based on. That was quite new to Athens as well. They're famous for the founders of it. It was still kind of getting off the ground, so it's kind of helps you set the scene of how different these societies. You've got Sparta where 2 kings in charge of a very autocratic society and then Athens, the founder of democracy. But Sparta hadn't got to the stage. It was, you know, dominating the the lower Peloponnese by doing what everyone else. The society was, as we talked about, geared towards war, but it's kind of dark secret that a lot of people don't really know about, and that's kind of glossed over in all the history books and all the Spartan legends is that they were effectively slave masters of an entire race of people, and those slaves were called Helots, as in HELOTSI. Think this. Debate on whether they were ethnically the same as Spartans, but they certainly came from the same land. There were a different city state that Sparta had effectively conquered in one. Of its wars. And they effectively subjugated the entire population as slaves. Not quite chattel slaves, but were still a pretty nasty way of life. 

Mark:  

Definitely for the hell, it's quite the dismal and violent existence. One of complete servitude to their Spartan masters. And it appears that Sparta, founded in the nine hundreds BC along the banks of the Eurotas River, a centralised location inland within the Southern Pale. From early on showed themselves to have a rather sharp appetite for expansion and for the enslavement of the people therein. First, conquering southwards to the coast, the lands known as Laconia in the early 8th century BC, followed by a push westwards in the mid to late 8th century. BC to subjugate Messenia that had very fertile lands. In fact, by the time Leonidas was born in the mid 500 species, Sparta's territorial extent was somewhere in the realm of 8000 to 8500 square kilometres, by far the largest state in Greece. And just for comparison's sake. The territory that Athens controlled Attica was about 2500 square kilometres. But you're right, because when it comes to the helots, there's good reason to believe that they may indeed have had a shared ancestry with their Spartan overlords. Since the Peloponnese had been settled by a group of people called the Dorians around 1100 BC. Granted, the Spartans, they saw things, let's say differently, believing themselves a superior race and state completely justified in the enslavement of their neighbours. And relegating the helots to a life of subservience. The fundamental means economically and agriculturally through which Sparta developed into a city state, a military obsessed society so unique and foreign to the rest of the Greek world. 

Elliot:   

Hmm. If in your society the highest pursuit is military prowess. This and you've got all the luxury time in the world to to work towards that. Then you're gonna become pretty good at it. I mean, they they didn't. Men and women, they didn't clean, they didn't cook, they didn't farm. They all they did was train to to become better soldiers because the Hellers took care of everything else. And there were about 7 times as many helmets in their society as it were. And so, you know, there's always this fear of a slave uprising and, you know, right. So. So I mean every year they declare war on these these subjugated people in a kind of ritualistic quasi religious war and an excuse to kind of chop off the the the ones who are showing any traits of leadership or any, anyone that might look like it might, you know, strike back against them. They humiliated them regularly. They force them to get drunk for their amusement. They whip them. You know, even when they hadn't done anything wrong, just to kind of show we're still in charge here and it's not going to change. Plutarch tells us that the Spartan males would just stroll through the fields and looking for helmets. It looked a little stronger than the others, and just. 

Mark:  

Ohh yeah I they were always on the prowl, essentially, for either anyone to your point, that was seemingly large in size and might be considered a potential formidable warrior and adversary in the future, or someone who was perhaps speaking a little bit too loudly about trying to create an uprising. So they would go in and essentially clear all those threats out preemptively before they became an active threat. 

Elliot:   

Yeah. And I got, I don't know if you got this too, but I got the feeling they're almost kind of pariahs in the Greek world for doing this. I mean, Greeks had slaves, but they didn't enslave other Greek people. It was almost like a bit of a taboo. 

Mark:  

Absolutely, partially. I think there was a I think that you could look at this in two ways, right? You had the rest of the Greek world that looked at Sparta and they saw this complete, unique, strange world. So very different from theirs. But then for the Spartans looking outwards. They were completely also xenophobic, right? They they saw themselves as the preeminent masters of Greece. No one could touch them, and everyone else is. Structure their political structure even to a certain degree, how they lived their lives was completely inferior to. What Spartans considered themselves to be. 

Elliot:   

I mean, I guess the summary is that if all your domestic jobs and everything else is being, you know, taken over by someone else, you get, you get pretty good at warfare, don't you? And that's how they got to to where they are. But maybe you can tell us a bit about that military focus and how they you know what they did with it? 

Mark:  

So given everything we talked about in terms of Spartan conquests and expansion in the southern Peloponnese, I think it's resoundingly clear to note that Sparta right from its beginnings had a militaristic leaning in outlook and they placed a great deal of focus, of course, on emphasising and and fostering its fighting strength. Though I would also. Argue that this tendency wasn't really all that unusual or rare among the city states that arose throughout ancient Greece between the 11th and 8th centuries BC. So there was lots of reasons associated to this, but. The more fundamental being the geography of the Greek. So you have this terrain that's dominated by the Pindus mountain range known as the spine of grease. Resulting in quite small, relatively small pockets of arable land, and this triggered a push for expansion. There was that wider Greek colonisation of the coastlines around the Mediterranean and the Black Sea. But also fierce competition and frequent wars among the city states that truly considered themselves to be distinct nations from one another. And this was so they could expand their footprints at the expense of their neighbours. 

Elliot:   

People refer to them as colonies, but they weren't really colonies, were they? They weren't dialling back to some capital. They were all quite independent. The only thing they. Shared was that. They were. They were loosely Greek, you know, they spoke a Greek dialect. 

Mark:  

That's a good point because while it was a Greek colonisation of the wider Mediterranean and Black Sea, you're right in that. The use of the term colonies is a little misleading. For example, although Athens was the mother city to many of the Ionian City states founded across the Aegean along western Anatolia. In essence, once established, they would become fully independent city states in their own right, though generally maintaining good relations, trade links and kinship ties to the mother city. But going back to the Greek mainland, I think one of the things that is really important to note is that when these. Wars, when these inevitable conflicts due to this meagre amount of arable land arose on the Greek mainland, it was the respective citizens of each state involved. It was they who? Would be called upon to, you know, Don their armour, pick up a spear. But again, it was only as the need called for it. It was never as a standing. And this is a notion that was equally applicable to Sparta as well, but that's at least until the early 7th century BC. Because this is when a Spartan by the name of Lycurgus brought to his nation what was effectively a revolution, he was the architect of Sparta's reinvention into an acutely militaristic. He's a bit of a shadowy figure. He wasn't a king. Most likely some type of Spartan elder that was seen to have a link to the gods Spartans. However, subsequent generations afterwards revered like Hercules as this semi divine figure the lawgiver, who, in accordance with the prophetic guidance he received from the Oracle of Apollo at Delphi. Instituted something called the great Retra, which is the Constitution that Sparta would reform their society around. The trigger point for this the the implementation of this was a time of great tribulations for Sparta. This is at the dawning of the 7th century BC, when a massive uprising of the Halletts took place. The Spartan slave class that you talked about. So this is one that evolved into a terribly difficult decades long conflict, about 40 to 50 years with Sparta experiencing huge setbacks at the initial stages. 

Elliot:   

Yeah. Wow. 

Mark:  

But then momentum swinging back strongly into their favour only after the implementation. Of the Great War. Metra and the remaking of Spartan society into this completely military focused state. Thus ending with Spartus victory in the Second Messenian war around 6:50 BC, and the continued domination of the Hallets. But it was through this new system that they had in hand. This is what. In their minds gave them ultimate. Victory. And so I think through this we can much better understand why Sparta citizens took so fervently to like herge's reforms. 

Elliot:   

Yeah. Yeah. It's not just about being ready to fight the enemy. You've got to be ready to fight an underling class in your society that are ready, that have good reasons to want. 

Mark:  

To kill you absolutely. Definitely. And this was a constant burning issue. And so this created this seismic shift to Spartan society. And I think it went much further than improving its military strength. The aim was broader than that in creating a utopia of sorts, what the Spartans considered a utopia, not one of. Individual creativity and expression, but one that was strictly authoritarian and hierarchical to that I would add, most importantly, with the Spartans at the top of the food chain. And this impacted their very psychology, their entire outlook of the world. And so we go back to the central feature of this, and it was Sparta becoming this completely focused military state, endeavouring to develop the best army the world had ever seen. The perfect soldiers also that were dedicated to the state above all because they always had this looming. Threat this danger of the helmets and their revolts and rebellions and uprisings. And that's multiplied by the fact that as you touched upon Eliot, that the hell it's vastly outnumbered the Spartans. 

Mark: 

Hmm hmm. 

Mark:  

So one of the things that I. Pulled when looking at this was some understanding of the demographics. So around 500 BC which is Leonidas’ era. The population estimate for Sparta being around 30 thousand citizens. 

Elliot:  

Right. 

Mark:  

Outnumbered by the Helots as much as 7 to 1, some historians even saying as much as 12:50, so a massive, massive gap there. And what did this do? It made. Sparta, let's say it remade Sparta into this permanently armed camp. No walls. Instead, protected by a professional standing army. And what did this army consist of? It was exclusively of its citizens. Male Spartans, men that were forbidden to have any other trade or profession other than as warriors in a constant state of readiness to deal with enemies within and without their domains. This is topped off by the notion that absolutely no one among its citizenry, even their kings, were above the Spartan state and its laws. 

Elliot:   

Yeah. Yeah. Well, look, I want to touch on something you just said then that maybe might have escaped some listeners. Kings. Plural, right? Yeah. That was a. That was a uniquely Spartan thing as well. So. There were two Kings ruling at once. This was definitely. Peculiar in the Greek world, I mean, they all ran. Their own ship, but. This was this was quite strange. So you touched on Leonard's birth, but both kings families came from 2 separate lines that supposedly descended back to Hercules. So every subsequent king had to be from one of these two families. I think there's debate on why there was. 2 Kings at once. From what I read, one represented the old power that was there before the Spartans kind of conquered and expanded during the Messenian Wars, and the other was the new power. So Sparta and Messenia. So did you. Did you find anything deeper on why they had two kings? 

Mark:  

So legend has it that the first Spartan King Aristo demos he had twins and it wasn't revealed who was born first. 

Mark: 

Oh, OK. 

Mark:  

He didn't want to have to choose between his two sons to only allow one to be selected as king or to become his hair, and so kind of strange. But then. Because it wasn't revealed who was first, they decided. OK, let's make them both kings and you guys will both Co rule over spar. I think that's certainly more the legend. One of the more probable, or I guess more realistic takes on this is that when Sparta came together in the 9th century BC and this is the result of an amalgamation of villages that created the polis of Sparta and it was 2 potential strong men. Amongst the villages that then decided to instead of fighting each other to the death, they decided to Co rule and. 

Mark: 

Make sense? 

Elliot:   

And then you just tie the story of Hercules back. Supposedly they both came from a Hercules, yeah. 

Mark:  

Everyone wants to be descended from a God, right? Like, yeah. 

Elliot:   

Doesn't hurt. Doesn't hurt. Hurt. Obviously they weren't. Was it like a, you know, a monarchy where they had absolute authority, right? They had a council to help them govern. 

Mark:  

Yeah, exactly. The Spartan kings definitely had limited powers. Their main roles primarily being functioning as the commanders in chief of the Army and as the keepers of the oracles from. Whereas the true governing power of the state resided in the hands of its oligarchy, a small ruling council called the elders that consisted of 28 men over the age of 60 that were elected for life to the Council. Which is reflective of this Spartan constitution that was purposely designed to have cheques and balances in place to ensure that no one person could obtain nor retain too much power, and that Spartan law always reigns supreme. While also maintaining the strict social hierarchy that kept everything running along smoothly, which can you walk us through what this societal structure looked like? 

Elliot:   

Well, the society was a kind of caste system, really. At the top where the spartiates, full blooded citizens who got all the privileges the Spartan citizen could hope for. Underneath them were the Pettish toy, and these were the Spartans who didn't live in the city centre. They lived in the countryside, so they had some privileges, but not as much as the spartiates. And underneath them were the pellets. The slaves. Yeah. And as you mentioned, this form of government was honed over many centuries, particularly in the recent wars. But what I thought was really interesting was it was forbidden to write down laws. So all of this was passed down, you know, orally being a Greek city state, you usually associate that with quite, you know, volumes of classical literature and scribes. And stuff like that. 

Mark:  

Yeah, probably speaks to this larger notion of Sparta. They didn't really document a whole heck of a lot in terms of anything, right? 

Mark: 

Hmm hmm. 

Mark:  

Literature, philosophy. These were. Pursuits left to others, they felt the hell. It's yeah, they they actually would. They consider these things beneath them. 

Elliot:   

Yeah, probably. The hell it's. 

Mark:  

Adding to that divide between Sparta and the rest of Greece, what made them so outlandish, so strange in their behaviours and outlook? Of the world. 

Elliot:   

On that note of strange, I think my favourite if I had to pick a favourite part of the Spartan legend and it's a tough call obviously is that you know laconic, clipped speech. So I think when people watch 300 and they hear Leonidas say, you know we will fight in the shade and dine in Hades and all this, they assume it's just Hollywood making it up. But they actually spoke. In that, Kurt clipped almost pithy way, where the whole point of the conversation was to get the meaning out in as few syllables as possible and maybe insult the person listening at the same time. If you could if you could. 

Mark:  

Manage they were masters at that amongst their. There are many. Very definitive skills that made them so unique in ancient Greece military, of course, you nailed it with the laconic speech so short. In delivery, but so deliberate as well. At the same time I I was going to ask you. What? What do you think was the purpose behind that? What were they trying to achieve? Well, how did that come to fruition? Do you have? Any sense of that? 

Elliot:   

I think it just is something that they knew would add to their mystique and something that would make them even more forbidden. You know when when someone asks you a question about life or death and you can, you know, say how you feel in one or two words, it makes you seem almost. Or fearsome as a soldier, doesn't it? 

Mark:  

Yeah. One of the things I was thinking about as well in addition to that is that this just occurred to me. So bear with me if this sounds strange, but OK, it could be that maybe there was some military utility to that. Like. I mean, you're in the midst of a battle or you're communications between your. Various units and it just needs to be shortened to the point, but you need to say what you mean and make it clear. But Sparta was notorious for, especially in diplomatic means, when communicating with others outside Sparta for amazing simple one liners that were just hard to deal with, right? You could you imagine the envoys? We'll have some really good examples of that. I think later on, as we get deeper into the material. But it just you could understand why. A story like this works within Hollywood, right? With these amazing one liners that are just, I think, a a dream to perhaps writers. 

Elliot:   

Yeah, I'm sure you came across this one, but this is but the story of a when a fellow Spartan kind of soldier comes up to Leonidas and and he says to him apart from you being king, you're no better than the rest of us. And then Leonidas hits back, but unless I had been better than you, I. Would not be king. It's just like, oh, you know, just Zynga. 

Mark:  

Yeah, I know. What do you how do you respond to that? No. Maybe you could you. 

Elliot:   

That's true. Exactly. You're right. We we have so many years coming. Later, but it's. Just it's such a I've drawed on about it a bit, but it's so key to who they were and how they how they acted upon themselves. And you know, it's how I mean, we said the word laconic. But for anyone who doesn't know, laconic actually means, you know, this kind of brief, pointed speech. And it came from. What the Spartans called themselves like a demonium. So yeah, it's it's it's something that is so, so important to the Spartan legend. But I mean, we haven't got how have we got this far without talking about how they actually fought, right? So the scene that kind of comes to me when I think about the Spartan fighting as and I've watched 300 quite. Recently, so bear with me. So you know the bit where Leonidas kind of asks all the Athenians what their jobs are, and I'm a Baker. I'm a I'm a cook. I'm a Porter. And then he asks for the Spartans. What their? Role is and they'll just like roar. Back at him. 

Mark:  

And what that scene accurately gets to is the key distinction in terms of what made Sparta's hop lights or soldiers so unique and dominant in Greece now. Like in Sparta, it was the norm for the citizens of this the many city states to fill the ranks of their own armies. Hmm. However, what separated them from Sparta was that soldiering was not a full time or year round vocation. To them. Meaning that they didn't really receive much more than basic military training, and they only served in the army and in campaign sporadically as the need arose. Whereas training for war, drilling and military manoeuvres and formations. That's what the Spartans did. Full stop. Day in, day out, and as a result, it honed them into not only exceptional warriors in their own right, but made them into. To almost invincible when operating as a part of a phalanx, and they could execute elaborate formations and manoeuvres, and this is in a complexity that was far beyond the ability of their counterparts throughout Greece. 

Elliot:   

Yeah, yeah. If you've been training with someone most of your life, there's a lot of trust that can be built that you're not going to have for the for a person, you're being conscripted next to the day before, for, you know, for a campaign before you go back to your family and your farm. 

Mark:  

Definitely I couldn't agree more. And adding to their fearsome reputation, what had also been weaved into their mindset of these Spartan warriors through their society, upbringing and training best displayed in battle in view of their comrades to their sides and their enemies in front of them, was their almost enthusiastic willingness to pay. The ultimate price laying down their lives if it benefited the Spartan state. Alluding to the Spartan notion of a beautiful death, an unwavering sense of duty to fight for and serve the state, no matter what, even when the situation and odds were terribly stacked against them. 

Elliot:   

You know, it was so indicative of people who death was not something they feared. It was something they kind of marched towards. It was the ultimate kind of pursuit for being this, you know, this soldier. You know, they fought as a unit, not individuals, so a usual Spartan warrior were a fully a full face bronze helmet. You know the ones where you see with the the the nose plate that goes around the eye holes, a coarse hair Crest running from front to back. I think there's some speculation that Lee and I had as as a as a king would have. 

Mark:  

Yes, yes, yeah. 

Elliot:   

Worn one that went ear to ear instead distinguish him. 

Mark:  

Yeah, yeah. 

Elliot:   

The battle, you know, it's a heavy helmet, good protection. But it also means you can't see much through your peripheral vision. So it's going to be quite important that you trust a man you know, to your right and left over their body. They wore it wasn't like 300 they did wore like a a bronze breastplate, usually with Greaves protecting their ankles. But interestingly enough, no foot gear whatsoever. So they were taught to just, you know, deal with. The stones and the gravel and their feet would be, I imagine, quite leathery. 

Mark:  

Yeah, yeah. From early on. As soon as they were children, as soon as their military training was initiated, it was all barefoot. Believed that someone could manoeuvre themselves much quicker, run faster, manoeuvre themselves in battle, pivot in the midst of battle, stay within their unit, remain tightly impacted as a phalanx. 

Elliot:   

Yeah. And it kind of makes sense, doesn't it? If you've got like a sandal or something that's falling all over the place, you could be able to, you know, turn as quickly. I thought it was interesting the the, you know, the very iconic red cloaks that I assume had been invented for Hollywood. They did actually wear those, but during battle they kind of they took. Them off so. You can imagine these people swaggering onto. A battlefield. You've got these. Enormously muscled men, you know, breastplates decked out with a red Cape. I mean, it's going to be quite. Not isn't it? 

Mark:  

Certainly intimidating. One of the other things I remember reading about as well was one of the other crucial pieces to their equipment. Their massive circular Shields almost one metre in diameter, constructed from hardwood with a bronze plating facing outwards called the aspis. Also referred to as the Hoplon, the name from which we get to the Convention of referring to Ancient Greek infantry as hoplite. And while variations of this shield type were common to the citizen based heavy infantry troops found throughout ancient Greece, the Spartans were notorious for burnishing or polishing their Shields to such a degree that, when presenting as a unified front in a phalanx formation. Their shield wall would reflect the sunlight. Really not only adding to their intimidating sight among all those other attributes that you already mentioned. But as they neared the opposing line, the reflected sunlight was said to have hammered the vision of their adversaries trying to blind whoever had the unfortunate circumstance of having to face these guys in battle. 

Elliot:   

What you've hit the nail on the head there, warfare is so much more than just stabbing and fighting. It's a psychological element. If you see people that enter the battlefield looking like this and got your grandfather's hand me down spear and A and an old leather jerk and you're not going to. Feel good, are you? 

Mark:  

Yeah, absolutely. 

Elliot:   

But I thought it weapons was quite an interesting one as well. Obviously they had a very they had the classic kind of short sword, it was, it was so short. It was almost a dagger right, like. A Dirk, but the main weapon they fought with was a very long. Spear the spear. We had the iron point and I. Think it's like a. Brass bat on it. So just behind the point, if you ever see in movies. Or, you know, and all the statues of Leonardo, so the. Guns. There's an inverted V which in the Greek alphabet is the the 1st letter of L for like a demonia. To lose that shield especially was to be seen. You know, as as incredibly shameful. Mothers would routinely tell their sons. Come back bearing your shield or on it. In other words, die or don't lose it. Exactly. But maybe you could tell us a bit about what daily life was like. I suppose for the. Spartans just when they weren't at war. 

Mark:  

Everything that you broke down for us, Elliott, in terms of the Spartan political system, the role of its monarchs, laconic speech, I think this presents for us a great opportunity to. Dig deeper into Spartan culture to get a better sense of the environment into which Leonidas was born, and that would ultimately shape his sense of purpose and outlook. Of the world. We previously established how central the military was to Sparta to safeguard that Utopia they had built. So what exactly did this look like from a cultural perspective? Well, in short, it was one wherein all its inhabitants and citizens were expected no more. Accurately demanded to place the needs and interests of the state before that of the individual. So they celebrated personal austerity, frugality and the shunning of luxury while. Glory and honours would be heaped upon his people that exemplified self sacrifice. Those who followed their duty to the letter of the law. 

Mark: 

Hmm hmm. 

Mark:  

So this is both attributed to the men and women who showed themselves willing to pay even the ultimate price for the greater good of the community. And this is a community that was unbendingly rigid in its ideals and configuration. Meaning that conformity and strict adherence to hierarchy were the hallMark: s of the society. So, Elliot, you already had mentioned how little they produced in the way of art, philosophy, architecture and this is another feature which separates them so much from the rest of the Greek world because unlike their most powerful counterparts elsewhere in Greece, Sparta was bare of any. Ostentatious, noteworthy buildings they just built as practicality demand. And then taking this notion a little bit further to things like poetry, there's a little bit of a more of an allowance for it in Sparta, but it was only as it related to their values and militant way of life. 

Elliot:   

If propaganda almost isn't it? 

Mark:  

Ohh that's a great way of saying it. Yes propaganda. I mean one of the most celebrated Spartan poet. Is this guy by the name of Tertius and he was in around the mid 7th century BC just at the time that they were implementing or maybe just shortly afterwards they implemented this system and so his poetry embodies propaganda. I think you said that perfectly to such an amazing degree. I have an example of 1. Of his works. He writes it as follows. Come now. Spartans abounding in good men. Thrust the shield into your left hand, brandishing your spear boldly with your right. Not sparing for your lives, for that is not the Spartan custom. 

Elliot:   

It's like something out of North Korea today, isn't it? 

Mark:  

Yeah, everything that was allowed for had to be in service to the military and to the state. So music, music was another exception. It was highly regarded, but not for the enjoyment of listening. It had practical purposes in battle. It would help to guide the Spartan. Balances as they advanced, keeping everyone in step, but also used for dancing as a form of exercise. However, one of the most important being for religious festivals honouring the gods. And Speaking of that, the Spartans were indeed a deeply religious people, possessing a particular affinity and devotion to the God Apollo. Who was the the prophetic deity of the Oracle at Delphi. So that's the God that had brought them through, like kargus the great retra, the system that had enabled them to emerge as the dominant state in southern Greece. And so they were constantly seeking to gain his favour and renew that favour, to keep things that way, to keep them at the top of the heap. Keep them dominant. And so the Spartans became notorious for needing to consult the Oracle before making any decision at all, whether to declare war upon someone else, sign off on peace deals and alliances and internal matters as well. So much that this drove Herodotus to write that in Sparta, Divine matters took precedence over human ones. And so this was so important to Sparta that during times of their more important religious festivals, one of the more important of these being called the CARNEA held annually every August in honour of Apollo to keep them appeased. So great was their fear of offending the gods that although they were never ones to shy away from a fight, the Spartans would abjectly refuse. To go to. War, if it conflicted with the timing of the carnage. 

Elliot:   

Hmm, saying something isn't it? 

Mark:  

Definitely this complete devotion and utter adherence to law, religion, whatever the state says and dictates as necessary. Something that everyone has this responsibility to follow and and champion as well. 

Elliot:   

Yeah. And uphold, really. 

Mark:  

Yes. And there's this distinction that we need to make here, I think as. Well, because yes, all the inhabitants, all the citizens. But perhaps it might be beneficial to provide a distinction of what citizenship was. And so in Sparta, citizenship was only granted to males that had been brought up in this brutally harsh. 23 year long system of training and education called the AGOGE, which will expand a little later on what this looked. But beyond this, there were other really steep prices to pay in order to maintain one's citizenship, including the requirement for men from 20 up until the age of 60 to participate in the army. No exceptions, and also provide monthly contributions of of food barley. Wine fruit from their estates. That was worked by the Halletts the Spartan slaves. All these contributions were going to this communal evening mass meal to keep all the Spartan soldiers, their entire army fed, and this is something that every Spartan citizen was expected to attend again, with no exception. Even Spartan kings required to take their meals there. Now one of the Spartan specialty dishes, this was sounds quite good. A notorious black soup. This partially clotted amalgamation made from pigs, blood vinegar and salt. Sounds good, eh? 

Elliot:   

Yeah, yeah, that gets serve me up a. Bowl of that. 

Mark:  

So it's probably it comes to no surprise or maybe it is a surprise to us that Spartan cuisine was disdained by outsiders as horribly bland, lacking, and some dishes like that black soup as outright. And I think to highlight this a little bit better, there's this famous story, rather amusing anecdote of a foreigner from Sybaris, one of the Greek colonies in southern Italy, and he once joined the Spartans at their public mess upon visiting them. And upon returning to his homeland, when asked how was. That he dryly responded. Now I know why the Spartans do not fear death. 

Elliot:   

I like it. I like it. 

Mark:  

Although I guess this brings us to another point, foreign visitors to Sparta, and this was a rare enough occurrence being that the Spartans were generally none too welcoming of visitors wary of any outside influences corrupting their utopia. At the same time, kind of highlighted their sharp sense of xenophobia, believing themselves and their system vastly superior to all other Greeks. And this was so unique in the Greek world where effectively all their resources and efforts were collectively poured into the army, utterly obsessed with the notion of. Military dominance. Quintessential to this was manufacturing, and I use that word purposefully manufacturing the best soldiers to fill its ranks. Within this, Spartan women playing an important role in this pursuit. Elliot, what are your thoughts on how Spartan women were expected to contribute to the state? 

Elliot:   

I would say like Spartan men, it was different to the rest of Greece, right? With no domestic duties to do that would usually occupy their time. They were more or less expected to be in very good shape to birth, you know, strong Spartan men and as many as. 

Mark:  

You're right. Like, I mean women. The women of Sparta. It was interesting because they were out exercising is so different from the rest of the Greek world and the rest of the Greek world, women were kept indoors, out of sight. Quiet Spartan women are, you know, all over the place in Sparta or property owners and exercising all this stuff. But you know, as you mentioned, their primary role. 

Elliot:   

Yeah, that's right. 

Mark:  

Was to give birth to future Spartan warriors. And So what did this look like it was? Quite interesting. It can, I think, accurately be described as a Spartan eugenics programme, and this was aiming to cultivate a population that was free of any physical or mental defects, since they couldn't really serve in the army nor contribute to the state in any meaningful capacity. What this meant for newborn babies was that immediately upon entering the world, they were inspected by the Spartan elders for physical defects, including immersing them in unmixed wine to test their reactions and not sure how. But somehow providing insights into their mental status. And then, while horrific for us to contemplate, those deemed not meeting the standard cast off a Cliff, eliminating any potential drains to the state. Brutally harsh and uncompromising. Fitting perfectly the description of the world that Leonidas was born into in 540 BC. 

Elliot:   

So Leonidas is born into the Aguad family, which is one of the two sort of royal houses of Sparta, and his father was a guy named Anaxandra Aidas or King Anaxandra's. The 2nd and Leonidas was, I believe, the third of his four sons, so it's already looking like he wasn't going to end up as king. Like most societies inspired of the first born usually inherited the role. Yeah, so this is important because. This meant that he went through this, this Spartan training programme we're talking about the agogi. So as you've touched it was it was a an affair that went for, you know, 20 plus years, effectively a training programme, an indoctrination programme to make Spartan men out of boys. You went in when you were about 7:00 and you left when you were what, 30 or something like that. 

Mark:  

Yeah, you're 100% right. That's 23 years, yeah, constant training and. Yeah. What? What an amazing thing. Like, could you? Could you imagine being this child in ancient? So for example, you're Leonidas. If you hadn't been earlier thrown off a Cliff, and if you've somehow managed to survive through that shockingly high infant mortality rates of antiquity to reach the age of seven, this is what awaited you now. This was what your prize was upon reaching 7. Ohh. 

Elliot:   

I think I would have just preferred to just chucked off the Cliff to be and the stuff knowing what's. Coming but. Maybe, maybe you could tell us a bit about the programme itself well. You know what? Was its purpose had? How did it come about? 

Mark:  

So let's first start off with a lot of what historians call this, and it seems to be regarded as the world's first state-run training and educational institution and. The word agogue or agogi the word agogue meant raising as in the raising of livestock. And OK, this sounds on the surface quite fitting for a militaristic centric state such as Sparta. I have to add that it's exceedingly hard to conceive and comprehend just exactly how terrifying that a go game must have been to go through, because seemingly and purposely, if one could survive this prolonged ordeal, entering into battle later on as an adult was almost by comparison. A far less in fear invoking and daunting event. So you had all 7 year old Spartan boys with the exception of the immediate heirs to the two Spartan Thrones required to matriculate. Which meant that, as you alluded to Leonidas because he was what the 3rd, but he was the third born. I think we can. 

Elliot:   

Third of four, yeah. 

Mark:  

Very reasonably assume. I would go as far as to say undoubtedly he would have been subjected to the AGOGUE because again, this was a place that would allow for no exceptions. 

Mark: 

Hmm hmm. 

Mark:  

So unless you were the immediate heir, you would have had to do it. So what did this look like? It was I. Think, Ellie. You'll take us through more of the details, but from what I had gathered. This is like a 23 year mind blowing gauntlet of strenuous training while regularly being hit and whipped to shreds by other Spartans. So I think the aim, the ultimate aim here was shaping and hardening the minds and bodies of these boys for war. Umm, removing one's individuality while pushing him to almost inhuman extremes of endurance, discipline, tolerance for pain, and overall discomfort. As if reforged into iron. Unrelenting punishment and delivered under this constant supervision of the elders, and they were brandishing whips and batons, ready to dish out stinging blows for just about any infringement, including strict limits on speech, which? Probably fostered what you talked about Elliot earlier in terms of the laconic speech. But all of which was designed to turn Spartan boys into warriors. Brothers in arms as a part of a fighting force that was unrivalled in green. Men willing to give up their lives if it was of benefit to the state. 

Elliot:   

Yeah, it's almost like a two decade long hazing process isn't. It I mean the kids start this at 7 years old and they're known as paides 7 years old. I mean, it's crazy, right? I don't know about you, but I don't think I could tie my shoes. At 7 years old, but yeah. As Paradis, they compete in these athletic events, you know, running, wrestling, dancing, stuff like that. They deliberately provided meals, nourishment that is not enough for their growing body, so they're encouraged but not told to. To effectively steal, and if they're caught stealing these huge punishments like you were talking about, you know, whippings and beatings. But if they got away with it, you know that that was all well and good because the. Skills that you would learn when you're selling food or kind of hiding stuff away is you know how to be stealthy and how to be nimble. All things that would be quite useful in come. So there was, I read this one story. It's probably apocryphal, but it said that this, this kids, you know, stealing. I think he grabs like a fox or. Something to bring. That he's caught red handed and he kind of stuffs this fox like down his tunic. And while he's being questioned about it, this fox is like wriggling around like in his tunic, and it starts like biting him. And rather than like be like, OK, you know, I give up. He just let he just stands there like well, Spartan and just gets eaten by this thing till he eventually just drops dead from blood loss. So it's probably one of those stories that's made-up, but it just goes to show you the lengths that you know that these kids really did go to for this. So when you got to your early teens, maybe 1213, then it was time to relearn effectively how to speak and you know, speak like a Spartan. You're not talking to your your, your mum and your sister anymore. You are talking to Spartan warriors. So as we mentioned, it was these pithy Kurt Short speeches that they they spoke in and you would learn to do that. Two every syllable was meant to have meaning, and the less words used to illustrate a particular point, you know, the better it was. Once they learned to speak like this, they're encouraged to tease and mock other Spartan boys in a way of kind of, I suppose, like stealing yourself against, you know, verbal insults, having the worst thing said to you. So it doesn't really matter what anyone says. And at around, here's a controversial bid, obviously at around 12 or 13 years old, there were probably paired up with another, older Spartan male for as a junior partner in a sexual relationship, so. I've read yes and no about this. I don't know what you came across, but it seems to me like this probably did happen. 

Mark:  

There's does seem to be quite a divide in terms of this. I I would agree. Sounds like a possibility. So out of the four sources that I came across, more of the ancient sources, there's Plato and Aristophanes, who believed from what I understand that this was indeed the case. In order to foster these loving bonds between the Warriors willing to. Put their lives on the line for one another, no matter what, which is quite possible. But then you have others like Xenophon and Plutarch, who state that this was more of a non sexual arrangement in its nature, arguing that perhaps others were alluding to this, because it undermine and poke fun at the masculinity of Spartan. Warriors in the Spartan system that was so different from the rest of the. 

Elliot:   

I think Herodotus, I think, was Herodotus, one of the sources wrote that the Spartans were, quote, addicted to buggery. That was the words that they used. So I mean that tells you what he really thought of that. But whether or not there was a sexual relationship to it, they were certainly paired up in. A mental kind. Of capacity. Yeah. Once they were 14, they were no longer paides. They moved on to being paid. So once they hit 14, they were beginning the, you know, official training to become a hop light. That's where they were given real weapons. And they started drilling themselves into Spartan Spartan styles of, you know, fighting in different disciplines and stuff like that. When they hit 20, they become hebontes. By this point, they should really know the basics of combat and drilling, so now they focus on the more advanced things. Manoeuvring techniques and fighting as a unit. A single weak link is going to, you know, mean the death of 1, possibly multiple men. So it's key that every single person knows what they're doing. And these are all people. That is what I forget about. These people have now known the probably the person standing next to them from the time they were, you know, seven years old or something. They've gone through all. 

Mark:  

Of this, it's crazy. Are you right? And they think at twenty 20s when they would become. Citizens right, and they were allowed to start participating in the Spartan army if necessary. I think they they they were still more on the raw recruiter side. One thing I wanted to touch on as well is like how there was. Different physical. Characteristics that would Mark:  them as they reach their different stages of development within this agoge system. So at 7 boys they're they would have their heads shorn shaved off and OK there you go. You're in, you're in the system. 

Mark: 

That's fine. 

Mark:  

And then at 20, they would be allowed to start growing out their hair, according to Plutarch. The reason why is because Spartan men wore their hair long, reputedly to make handsome men more handsome and ugly men more frightening. So you know, it was all again purposeful to military matters, but then it wasn't until later. So, you know, you're 20 years old. You're becoming this war. You're you're allowed to grow your hair. This must have been something iconic that everyone was looking to achieve because it would Mark:  you with esteem versus others and then later on when you hit this. The once you finish going through everything, then you're allowed to grow your beard out and your moustache out, and then that. Thus you get to that kind of description that I was mentioning to right at the onset, you know, long hair, big beards and moustaches. It was all intended to make them either more fearsome, or, I guess, more handsome. 

Elliot:   

Yeah, it's I guess it's. Think that. Identifies someone, even if you're walking down the street and you're passing someone, you can immediately see. You know they're almost their rank in society rather than just guessing their age. Yeah. When? When they do hit kind of their their late 20s, they were given the right to vote and the most promising of them were selected for almost like different elite roles. One that grabbed my attention, was called the Krypteia. Which was a kind of secret place that kept the helmets down, was making sure that none of them stepped out of line. Once again, we could see just how much is geared on these people being kept down, right? The whole society is just circled around to make sure these people do not. Ever rise up? 

Mark:  

From your understanding, what was the purpose of those that entered into the krypteia like so they were kind of like a secret police. 

Elliot:   

What exactly did they do? I think it's they tried to kind of infiltrate the rings. That other, I suppose helmets or maybe sympathisers were in and they tried to just get close to them to make sure they found out in any plots that were being hatched. Or any suspected uprisings, people who were maybe being a bit disobedient or you know? A bit bit cheeky. But once again, these are people who can't, you know, top of the class, they they come out at that level, but once they hit 30, that's generally the time when they're allowed to allowed to marry. As you mentioned, they get a lot at a farm. So they don't get given a farm and told to, you know, get started holding the holding the fields, they've given a whole bunch of helmets to do. It for them, yeah. That's an overview of the OGI system, but we obviously mentioned Leonidas was going through it, but what had been happening with Sparta during that time period? 

Mark:  

This is a perfect segue I think into now we're bringing this more into Leonidas’ era. Earlier, we established what the culture of the environment into which he was born and raised. But what was? Happening around 5:33 to about 5-10 BC while he was going through the trials and tribulations of the ego gay. There was a lot that was changing with Sparta at this time because this is a period when. Sparta became much more active in terms of interacting with the wider world outside the southern Peloponnese, and they were ambitiously looking to grow Spartan domination and influence beyond that boundary, a goal that would have impacted Leonidas’ perspective and ambitions that would have been so tightly wound. To the needs of the state. It's quite well documented. As we touched upon earlier that up until about the mid 6th century BC, Sparta was quite isolationist, relatively content within their utopia that was closed off to the world and not really bothering too much with the politics of others. Aside, of course, from involving themselves in wars with their more immediate neighbours, notably the Arcadians just to the north of Sparta. And the polis of Argos to the northeast, who was their principal archrival in the Peloponnese? Yeah. And so while the Spartans, being that they possessed the finest land army in all of Greece, almost always emerged victorious in pitch battles against these adversaries, taking their cities and lands. The thing is, is that once the main Spartan army departed, the newly dominated cities and territories would inevitably rebel or be retaken. Yeah, meaning the Spartan army would just be called upon to make incursions again and again. Even more dangerous is that these campaigns left them vulnerable at home. Since the hallets of Sparta were always on the lookout for an opportunity to free themselves from their servitude of their Spartan masters. So this is quite the conundrum, right you have. The Spartans wanting to expand but also tethered to their homeland, not daring to venture too far in fear of their slaves that outnumbered them as much as seven to one, or according to some others, 12:50. So what to do? The solution to this complex problem, arriving in the form of the Peloponnesian League, and this is the Spartan policy to gain wider dominance throughout the entire palpan ease through diplomatic efforts. Wherein they proposed a Spartan LED confederation and military alliance of all the states therein. And this is established around 5:50 BC during the reign of annex and three. Thus the second Leonidas’ father, and given the Spartan penchant for, you know, psychological coercion and trickery. It was founded through very subversive methods, something modern historians called the bones. What did this look like? It was Sparta around this time scouring southern Greece and appropriating notably large bones and skeletal remains. They were said to belong to mythological heroes worshipped in the Peloponnese and then presenting them as being discovered in Sparta. Now most likely dinosaur bones, but apparently convincingly argued by the Spartans to be the remains of the mythical ruler King Agamemnon and his successors. Yeah, that had founded the Mycenean civilization in the balconies some 1200. Years in the past, but what this did is it presented Sparta as the hereditary and thus the only natural choice to act as the leader of the Peloponnesian League. 

Mark: 

Hmm hmm. 

Mark:  

Convenient. Super convenient. These guys were. I mean, they were so smart in terms of how they approached these types of things, not just in. Terms of sheer warfare, but. Doing all the little things in addition to that, to gain every single type of edge diplomatically, I mean this is a master class in terms of how they treated it. And so you had all these with the exception of Argos, who was their arch rival that never joined the vast majority of the city states in the Peloponnese. Did all validating Sparta's leadership as the hegemon of the leak, in part due to the bones policy, but also due to their widely recognised and feared military strike. And one of the principal requirements for joining being to promise to help Sparta in case hellet rebellions arose. This solved that nagging issue and threat when the main Spartan army was abroad on campaign. But there were benefits for the city. States that did join in significant tangible benefits for doing so, including one that they no longer had to fear war against Sparta, furthered by the huge benefit of having the Spartan phalanxes on their side in the event that they became involved in the conflict. So huge benefit there. 

Elliot:   

And yeah. 

Mark:  

But the second also quite important. Says since the governing bodies that ruled these states were, for the most part similar insofar as being oligarchies, a political form acceptable under Spartan law, the oligarchs that ruled most of the league members could now rely on Sparta to retain their status. 

Mark: 

Hmm hmm. 

Mark:  

And this is such an important point, because this aligned strongly with Spartan ideals. And when Cleomenes the first Leonidas’ eldest brother, assumed the Agid throne in 524 BC. He ended up driving what was to become one of the more one of the more important mandates of the league, which was to spread this type of political structure by force, if necessary, among other Greek states outside of their league. Now this is in part because they wanted to install governments friendly to Spartan interest. But also because Sparta was steadfastly opposed to other political forms, so against tyrants, the rule of the individual, but also pure democracies, which were both these structures were both seen as threats, standing in defiance to the Spartan constitution. And justice to highlight that last point a little better, Cleomenes between 5:12 and 5:06 BC, just as Leonidas was finishing up his time at the Agogue, Cleomenes led no less than 4 military interventions into Athens in order to remove tyrants from power. But interestingly, and probably to his disgruntled irritation, these interventions only ended up leading to the creation of a democracy at Athens. That Cleomenes probably also intended to squash, but was subsequently forced to turn the attention of the Spartans closer to home due to a war that broke out with Argos, their primary nemesis in the Peloponnese. 

Elliot:   

All right. So you touched on just before Mark: , obviously the units had completed the agogi. But in regards to what was happening outside of the Greek mainland, not just Sparta but outside the Greek colonies, there's kind of this looming threat on the horizon, right? And Sparta was going through some growing pains of its own. So there was a serious. Shift in power. You know you mentioned before, Spartas rival Argos. Well, in 494, the Spartan army crushed Argos in a particularly quite a nasty battle. It effectively neutered them from the political stage for a very, very long time after. The army itself was led by the current king of Sparta, Cleomenes first, which was Leonidas’ older brother. By the time this battle took place, this is the battle essentially for Argos. Leonidas would have finished the Yogi, so it's not out of the realms of possibility to believe he might have been involved in this battle with nothing saying he was but. You know the timelines lineup. 

Mark:  

I'll come in here too. My tendency is to believe that he would have undoubtedly been involved in at least some of the. Things that Sparta had been doing, the reason I say this is because Sparta had been involved in so many things. A number of interventions in fighting in Athens as well to try to install a friendly oligarchy there. But you're right that that war with the Battle of Argo, so they had been involved in a number of wars and. Altercations that aligns with when Leonidas would have completed the ago gay buy. He would have been available for active service probably as early as 520 BC, when he was around 20 years old. 

Mark: 

Hmm hmm. 

Mark:  

And it's For these reasons that I think he would have had to have been, I think, an accomplished warrior seasoned and respected by the time he became king in 490. Otherwise, I tend to very much doubt that he would have been called upon to lead the 300 Spartans, that they're mostly much less. Lead the Greek coalition force. 

Elliot:   

No, exactly. Yeah, but that experience must have come from somewhere, right? He didn't just walk into that one, you know, without having anything behind him. Right, but clear Manies seemed to be that kind of guy, as we'll see soon, just like presidents have their own kind of flavour of presidency now. He he really injected himself into foreign affairs quite a bit and spoiler alert is going to get him in trouble pretty soon. But if Leonidas had been at this battle, he would have seen a particularly gruesome men for Argos, virtually half its male population was slaughtered. Well, but the victory had made Sparta the uncontested power of the Peloponnese. They're already in front, but this really just like brought the point home. And when he comes home, he overthrows this other Spartan king, a guy named Demaratus. Demaratus is going to be a very key player for our stories, so if you're struggling with all these Greek names, this. Is 1 to remember? It's it's interesting cause this is almost foreshadowing what's to come. So off Sparta is this little island of the Peloponnesian that had effectively acknowledged the Persian king Xerxes. And on a name we all know well. Don't we as? As they're kind of overlord and this trend was kind of creeping towards Greece over from effectively Persia. Xerses or his father or his grandfather has conquered quite far to the. And the new battleground is slowly edging towards Greece. Lots of different city states, some side with Persia, some go neutral, and this island off Sparta gives Xerses ambassadors A token of submission, which is Earth and water. Now claiming has already siding against Surrogacies in this upcoming battle and the other king, the other Spartan King Demaratus is a bit more hands off. He says, OK, well, you know, let let's let's let him have his own battles. Let's let him forge his own destiny here. And this kind of turns into a bit of a. It creates a bit of friction between these two kings where Coleman. This is much more interventionist. He wants to get involved in. These things and Demaratus, whether or not he was an ally of surgeries, whether or not he was on the fence, it's all it's all up in the air, but he certainly wasn't going to you. Know start. A war over this? Clearly he's wanted this ruler of this island, gone and demerit. Just wanted to stick around, so in the end Clayman is gets his way and this paves the way for Demaratus's downfall. And the way that he actually does this, he goes to the Oracle of Delphi, which we talked about before, and it seems that he actually bribes them to have Demaratus declared a bastard. So religion was absolutely massive for the Spartans, and you know, they took this. They took this very seriously. Demaratus ends up in going into exile because, you know, all his, his honours lost and there's nowhere else he can go. And he finds refuge at you know, you guessed it. The Court of Xerxes. So whether or not he had sided with the Xerxes before this. 

Mark:  

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. 

Elliot:   

This certainly pushed him into his camp, right? And as I said, he goes in to be a very, very key figure in our story. He he's kind of like the the Spartan guide for Xerses. He's the one that tells them about how they do things and how how it all works in their culture. But unfortunately for claiming his after Demaratus was off the stage, evidence kind of comes to light. About this bribery. Of of the bribing of the Oracle. So he almost goes down with him. Not not too long after. So there's a few little whispers that I've read that kind of finger Leonidas as the one that pointed out this bribery, but I don't. I think that's just conjecture at this point, I. Don't think anyone actually. 

Mark:  

Calculated, but he certainly had the most to gain right. He had the most to gain in terms of being the next one to obtain the I get throne. You're right. There's a lot of suspicions, but nothing has ever been definitively. Presented as far as whether he was actively involved with getting Cleomenes subsequently removed, but in any event this spelled the end for Cleomenes. 

Elliot:   

Effectively, his honour was lost in his his career is over, right? So he's placed under house arrest and he claiming he's always seems to have been a bit touched in the head. I think he was kind of a bit of a bit loose and this really seems to have just sent him off the edge so. He's got a couple of hallets guarding him. This is according to Herodotus, and he convinces one of them to give him a sword, and he kills himself by slicing himself into pieces, starting at the Shins and working his way up. I mean that has got to be a rough way to go, not just, you know, cutting your wrists or something, but slicing all your skin off from. 

Mark:  

Legs up. What do you think was the catalyst for that? What could cause someone to end their life like that? By that time, he'd already been so dishonoured by his people that what's the option? Either you go in exile, which is. One way of it, but the other way is by essentially committing suicide in such a unbelievably brutal way, yeah. 

Elliot:   

It's it's almost like it's so memorable. It's something to remember him by in a way, isn't it? It can't really follow Demaratus into Xerses court, isn't it? Can't he? So he's got this, this option or the other one. And it it in a way, it does speak of, you know, quite a bit about the type of person he was. That was that, you know, before this he was. Quite a good king, wasn't he? He was very, very good. 

Mark:  

He was extremely competent, he. You're right. Like he was a bit of a loose cannon though, so different from the Spartan kings before him. And it was a a huge driver of Sparta becoming so much more active in the broader world. Maybe that was something just the overall. Uncomfortable nature of that change in course certainly was something that added to him being such a differently viewed king, and perhaps to his contemporaries. That notion of a loose cannon that. By then, once he got rid of Demeris once he had him exiled. The overseers, the all the Spartan elders, had enough of it already, and that could be one of the reasons. Maybe it wasn't Leonidas, but or perhaps a combination of the two that led to his ultimate removal and then thus his suicide. 

Elliot:   

Even speculating on what all these people have obviously gone through in this society, even just growing up, even if nothing had gone wrong, it's a rough enough time. Just living. I mean, who knows? Probably had some PTSD or something there. But with that. The Spartans have a new king claim, and his 50 year old younger brother, the one and only Leonidas, is on the throne. 

Mark:  

Now Leonidas here, send it to the agent throne at quite the interesting point, because although things were relatively stable in Sparta. Also secure in their position of authority in the Peloponnese at the head of the Peloponnesian League, this was to use your words again, Eliot a time of looming threat and uncertainty. For the whole of Greece. Because the rise of the Alcamid Persian Empire was at hand with their armies having just crossed over the Hellespont today, the Dardanelle Strait initiating the first Persian invasion of Greece as a part of this wider conflict that would go down in history as the Greco Persian wars. The Achaemenid Empire was founded under Cyrus the Great, who was a reMark: able military. Who from what is today southwestern Iran rebelled against and defeated the median empire in 550 BC to become the first Persian king of kings. Followed by an unrelenting cadence of campaigns to defeat and absorb the Ionian Greek city states at the western edge of Anatolia. The Kingdom of Lydia and the Neo Babylonian empire into his domains by around 5:30 BC. So this was a policy of imperialism and conquest that was furthered by his successors, that by the late four 90s BC under Derise, the first had expanded to include Egypt, much of Central Asia as their northeastern boundary and the Indus Valley to the South. East. The Achaemenid Empire, thus firmly situated as the largest empire the world had ever seen to that point in time, spanning an enormous area of some 5,000,000 square kilometres. And this is an empire that's characterised by its centralised rule over regional sub leaders in territories called satrapies. The Achaemenid Empire thereby made-up of a vast multicultural population. Possessing impressively deep pockets in terms of military resources and numbers. Seemingly unstoppable and their appetite for conquest not satiated in the least, when Derius crossed over the Hellespont in 492 from Anatolia into Thrace in this dual pronged land sea invasion, he had an army of nearly 30,000 supported by about 600 warships. Try reams and these were skirting the Aegean coastline travelling towards mainland Greece. I guess the question is what was the catalyst for this epic collision? Now a lot of this stemmed from Cyrus the Great's conquest of the Ionian Greek City states. Those located along the western coastline of Anatolia, also referred to as Asia Minor, and this conquest was achieved by Cyrus by the mid Five 40s BC. What this did however was. Hugely unsettled and sparked a great deal of concern among the wider Greek world, notably from Sparta and Athens, but for different reasons. From Sparta because as mentioned earlier, tyrannical power or individual rule which Cyrus as the King of Kings of the Achaemenids personified. More than anyone else on Earth as the most powerful ruler of the most powerful state, the threat of fellow Greeks getting swallowed up by this. So assaulted the Spartan senses that in the lead up to Cyrus's campaigns among the Ionians, the Spartans around 547 BC sent an envoy to Cyrus. Conveying a simple mess. That he should leave the cities of the Ionians alone. Otherwise be prepared to face the wrath of the Spartans. Granted this message, it did very little to rattle the King of Kings, aside from eliciting amusement and some curiosity. So then he proceeded to call over an Ionian attendant to ask who are these Spartans? Before proceeding to crush the Ionian cities as originally intended and the Spartan threats in this instance not really amounting to much beyond words, since they didn't want to become embroiled in a conflict so far away from home. Instead, it being more so the Athenians that would draw persian's irritation causing the Achaemenids to narrow their gaze not only on them, but all of Greece. And this is when in 499 BC the Ionian Greeks revolted from the Achaemenid Empire under. Darius the first. And the athenians. Supporting the rebel cause with troop contributions. Much of the rationale behind this intervention attributed to the fact that Athens was the mother city of many of these Ionian cities. And so while this resulted in massive headaches for the Persians, the revolt was later decisively squashed by derisive forces by 493. But in the following year, in 492, Darius launching the first invasion of Greece at the head of that 30,000 land troop and 600 warship army any first conquered Thrace and the Kingdom of Macedon en route to northern mainland Greece. Elliot, you talked about this a little bit earlier, but I want to paint this picture a little more. When you have this in 491 BC, this Persian assault, it's preceded by embassies that Darius sent to travel throughout the city states of Greece demanding those tokens of Earth and water, those traditional symbols of. And then we get to this infamous story related to us by Herodotus when in Sparta, upon receiving the rise, his envoys demanding Earth and water in a show of submission. The Spartans, in response through the Persian emissaries down a well, reportedly saying dig it out for yourselves. 

Elliot:   

And maybe they yelled. This is Sparta. As it went down. 

Mark:  

What's interesting here is that the Athenians too, they killed the Persian emissaries that were sent to them. This, among many other things resulting in Darius ordering his army southwards into Greece, aiming to 1st lay waste to the city of Athens, before presumably turning to Sparta. 

Elliot:   

The thing about it was it wasn't too bad of a deal being subjugated to Persia. It wasn't the worst thing in the world. You got to keep your religions your. Army stayed the way it was your. Government stayed the way it was. All that really happened was you paid some taxes and your army was sent Xerses campaign, so you can see why a lot of these states are going well, we can fight them or we can just put this little overhead of Persian tax on our on our economy. 

Mark:  

I would agree with you because. One of the lesser known features of this first Persian invasion was how many city states in Greece were. Sitting on the fence. But they were, yeah, not joining into this coalition. Right. The first one would culminate. In 490 BC and. There was a Greek coalition army present. It was Athenian led, but there were many, many states that weren't involved because they were, you know, trying to see which way the wind was blowing, right. Whether Xerxes going to be the one who emerges victorious, the better perhaps to not get on his bad side by participating in if they're. The Greeks are going to get crushed and we're going to end up being ruled anyway by the Persians, right? So that was, I think, part of the consideration. But then when we draw it back to. What was happening in 490 BC? This is when the first collision active collision between 2 armies would take place at a place called marathon. The Battle of Marathon, 30 kilometres northeast of Athens. While this was a Greek coalition army among all the other states. That were not participating. It was also absent of Spartan soldiers. Part of this is like, OK, why were the Spartans not participating in the Battle of Marathon? One, the interesting thing is here it wasn't because they didn't see the Persian threat for what it was, a potential calamity in the making that was coming for them as well. But they're declining to participate was primarily for religious reasons, because that call to war, the Battle of Marathon. It conflicted with the timing of their religious festival, the. Maya that as mentioned earlier, was a sacrosanct period of peace, with the Spartans unwilling to offend the gods by putting the matters of mere mortals before the divine ones. But what's astounding here is that even without Spartan aid, the Athenian lead Army managed to pull off an incredible victory over the Persians at Marathon. Granted, the invasion force was, what about 30,000? That was the land forces they brought with them so large, but. As we'll find out a little bit later. Much smaller than what was going to come for. Them next, right? 

Elliot:   

This the sequel's a lot. 

Mark:  

Better you said it, and so the Athenians still managed to pull off this incredible victory over the Persians, and they they defeated them there at Marathon and push the Caymans out of mainland Greece. Back up north, but with the Cayman, it's still sitting at their doorstep, retaining control of Thrace. In Macedon, as the newest additions to their mammoth empire. And despite those successes, Derius left infuriated at the outcome. So upon returning to Persia, this is probably around 480-9490 towards late 49489. He immediately began raising a new army to make another attempt at Greece. But was then forced to put that on hold when Egypt revolted in 486, pulling his attention there instead. But then disaster because Darius he succumbed to illness and died while on that March. And this is the point that the Aquaman had thrown passed over to his son Xersesthe 1st. And Xerxes was a more than competent successor and Warrior King in his own. Right. Who didn't miss a beat? He picked up things exactly where his father had left it all off, crushing the Egyptian revolt, and another that arose in Babylon. And with internal affairs all settled towards the late 40s BC, Xerxes began making preparations to exact revenge on Greece for the failed First Persian invasion, amassing an army far, far greater in strength in number than what his father had earlier assembled. 

Elliot:   

The stage was set for one of the most famous battles of all time. And that is where we're going to pause things for. Today, Spartans and Athens have just kicked an enormous hornet's nest. The Persians were coming and shoulders to shoulder, Shields raised and Spears sharpened. The Spartans were waiting for them. We'll be back in two weeks, but while you wait, why not check out the Warlords of History Podcast? You can find the show on any podcasting app, just like Anthology of Heroes. This episode of the podcast is brought to you by the shows fantastic patrons. If I was standing in a Greek fan lengths, I'd be picking you guys. To join me. I don't know if that's a good thing or not. Come to think about. Anyway, thanks to you guys. Claudia, Tom. Caleb, Malcolm, Alex, Seth. Angus. Phil. Lisa, Jim Allen and Luke. Thanks a lot. Guys see you in the next one.